ADSS 1.271 Pacini to Maglione: Conversation with Polish Minister Beck

ADSS 1.271 Alfredo Pacini, Charge d’affaires, Polish Nunciature in Angers, France, to Luigi Maglione, Sec State.

Reference: Report 15/40 (AES 2954/40)

Location and date: Angers, 20.03.1940

Summary statement: Pacini reports on conversation with Polish Foreign Minister, August Zaleski who commented on Sumner Welles information:  Jozef Beck never consented to the return of Danzig to the Reich.  Pacini quotes the Polish ‘White Book’

Language: Italian

Text:

As I had the honour to inform Your Eminence whith my report No 14/40 of yesterday (1), M. Zaleski, Polish Foreign Minister (2), spoke to me about his meeting in Paris with Mr Welles at the occasion of Welles’ visit to the French Government. The Minister said: “As we do not want to keep anything secret from the Holy See, I wish to report the conversation I had with Mr Welles.

“Mr Roosevelt’s representative asked me only a few questions but insisted on knowing if it was true that Minister Beck (3) – during the visit paid by the Polish Minister to the German Chancellor in his residence in Berchtesgaden on 5 January 1939 – made concessions to Hitler regarding the return of Danzig and the Corridor to Germany”.

M. Zelseki replied: “From documents found in the Foreign Ministry and from other knowledge this information seems to be untrue.  When speaking with Chancellor Hitler, M. Beck used a formal phrase of courtesy, namely that there was always a way to reach an understanding on thorny questions without the necessity of letting it come to a serious conflict; he did not say clearly yes of no, and clarity would have been necessary.  But, at a meeting which M. Beck had in Munich on 6 January with the German Foreign Minister he took the opportunity to explain his ideas about these problems more clearly, saying that Poland would never agree to hand Danzig to Germany or to other requests regarding the extra-territorial status of a Corridor.

Mr Welles took notes on the subject and did not ask anything else of importance.

Minister Zaleski tells me that Mr Welles asked General Sikorski, President of the Council (4), his opinion on the military might of Germany and Russia and M. Sikorski made a report which was handed to Mr Welles while he was leaving London for Paris.

I note that the Polish “White Book” mentions the conversations which Minister Beck had with Chancellor Hitler and with the German Foreign Minister von Ribbentrop in two documents: 48-49 and 78-79.  One can see from them, the manner in which very thorny questions, which then developed into a war, were dealt with.  The discussions were resumed in Berlin on 21 March (the “White Book” mentions them under No. 61) between the Polish Ambassador, M. Lipski and the German Foreign Minister von Ribbentrop, with the well known tragic results.

Notes:

(1) Report not published in ADSS.  Pacini provided information about giving the document to the Polish Minister.  See ADSS 1.248 note 1.

(2) August Zaleski (1883-1972), Minister of Foreign Affairs Polish Government in Exile 1940-47.

(3) Jozef Beck (1894-1944), Polish Foreign Minister 1932-39.

(4) Wladislaw Sikorski (1881-1943), Prime Minister Polish Government in Exile 1939-43.

(5) The Polish “White Book” was a collection of documents dealing with Poland’s relations with Germany and the USSR between 1933 and 1939.  It was published on 15.03.1940.

ADSS 1.270 Maglione, notes: Polish article is unfair to the Holy See

ADSS 1.270 Luigi Maglione, Sec State, notes.

Reference: AES 2476/40

Location and date: Vatican, 19.03.1940

Summary statement: Polish article is unfair to the Holy See.

Language: Italian

Text:

The article shows injustice and ingratitude (1).  The Holy Father and I spoke with Ribbentrop about conditions in Poland (2).

Monsignor Pacini should remonstrate (3).

Notes:

(1) ADSS 1.262

(2) ADSS 1.257, 258, 259.

(3) Alfredo Pacini (1888-1967), Charge d’affaires of the Polish Nunciature 1935-44; in Angers, France, with the Polish Government in Exile.

ADSS 1.269 Maglione to Orsenigo: conversation with Ribbentrop

ADSS 1.269 Luigi Maglione, Sec State, to Cesare Orsenigo, Germany

Reference: AES 2360/40

Location and date: Vatican, 19.03.1940

Summary statement: Maglione informs Orsenigo of his conversation with Ribbentrop.

Language: Italian

Text:

I take pleasure in sending Your Excellency, for your information and guidance , some notes on the two meetings – one in the Vatican and the other in the German Embassy to the Holy See – which the German Foreign Minister had with me on the 11.03.1940, soon after his audience with the Holy Father (1).

The Minister affirmed his pleasure, several times, in having been able to see the Holy Father and to talk with him about the religious position in Germany taking advantage of his time in Rome to settle a few questions with the Italian Government.

He also told me that he was able, during the audience, to note with great satisfaction that the Pope still has his heart in Germany, and a great wish to reach a firm and lasting agreement with Hitler.

He added that Hitler also wants a sound and lasting settlement.  He has already given proof of his goodwill by stopping, by the hundreds, the proceedings against the clergy.  But Hitler is a man with far-sighted plans and thinks more of the future than of the present.  We cannot therefore think that we can reach the desired settlement at present.  Germany is now engaged in a terrific struggle for its own existence and greatness. Hitler has all Germans on his side: their energy is devoted to the attainment of victory; it is not possible to think about other problems.  Afterwards we will negotiate.

I did not fail to point out to the Minister that religion is also concerned with the present and it is therefore not possible to set aside the current problems which hamper it and cause sorrow, pain and grace danger to souls.  Replying to one of his frequent allusions to the so-called political activity of the German clergy, I recalled to him the Holy See’s instructions on this subject, instructions which the German clergy, at least generally speaking, obey scrupulously.  If in some particular instance these instructions have not been obeyed, the only thing to do would be to inform the competent ecclesiastical authority which would immediately remedy it.  But it would be a grave error, I added, to see political motives in the overall activity of clergy and people.

From here, passing to more concrete points, I recalled the particular attention of the Minister to some of the many facts which the Church has lately been compelled to deplore: these have already been communicated to the German Embassy to the Holy See with our note of last July which so far has not been replied to, and in particular other more recent notes, as for example the closing down of Seminaries and Theological Faculties, without even informing the Holy See although this is a matter which comes under the Concordat.

Regarding Poland – as the Minister handed to me an official publication on the Polish atrocities against the Germans and mentioned the political activity of the Polish clergy – I told him that the Holy See wishes to be accurately informed and therefore they have several times asked Berlin for permission to send a trusted clergyman to Poland namely Monsignor Colli, Counsellor of the Nunciature in Germany, but until now they have not had a reply in the sense desired; and in the meantime, the various reports which circulate on the situation in Poland, some of which cannot be confuted, are becoming very distressing.  We can ask the Polish priests to abstain from creating difficulties to the occupying authority, but it is not possible to pretend that they should renounce their love of their own country.  The presence of the Holy See’s envoy, I added, would help in clearing misunderstandings and in assisting the priests in their undertaking to devote themselves exclusively to their pastoral ministry.  He could, by keeping in touch with the German authorities, give useful directives and good advice to help the Bishops to bring the religious situation back to normal.  But I only received a vague reply.

I spoke also of the necessity of helping the poor Polish population and I reminded him of the request already made for the consent of the Berlin Government for organising assistance under the control of the Holy See’s envoy in agreement with the occupying power.  But I did not get a satisfactory reply.

At Villa Bonaparte I spoke again of the advantage of having a representative of the Holy See in Warsaw, in the interest of Germany itself.  He replied that he would think about it but added explicitly that he could not promise anything.  He spoke again about Hitler’s goodwill (who is looking to the future) and about the necessity of setting aside particular questions.

Notes:

(1) ADSS 1.257, 258.

ADSS 1.262 Alfredo Pacini to Maglione: Ribbentrop's visit to the Holy See

ADSS 1.262 Alfredo Pacini, Charge d’Affaires Poland (1), to Luigi Maglione, Sec State.

Reference: Report 13/40 (AES 2476/40)

Location and date: Paris, 13.03.1940

Summary statement: Polish reaction to Ribbentrop’s visit to the Vatican.

Language: Italian

Text:

I hasten to draw Your Eminence’s attention to an article on the visit paid to the Holy Father by the German foreign Minister, von Ribbentrop, which appeared today, 13 March, in the newspaper Glos Polski (The Voice of Poland), official paper of the Polish government in Angers.

This article, which I translate word for word, expressed the general feelings of the Polish people living in France and especially in Paris.

Many of them by word of mouth have expressed more or less the same feelings to me; while I for my part tried to quieten these unfortunate people who, because of the situation in which they find themselves and their state of mind, which is full of bitterness and fear, are frightened by the rustle of a leaf.

I have not, these last few days, seen any Government officials or members of the National Council, as they are all at Angers, but I shall not fail to see some of them and to inform Your Eminence about these meetings.

Notes: 

(1) Alfredo Pacini (1888-1967), Charge d’Affaires, Polish Nunciature. Filipo Cortesi, the nuncio left Warsaw in mid-September 1939 and the nunciature was closed.  Pacini made his way to France where a Polish government in exile was established in Angers in January 1940.  The Polish government fled to Britain after the German invasion in May.

ADSS 1.259 Sec State notes of Silvio Attilio: Ribbentrop visit

ADSS 1.259 Secretariat of State, notes of Silvio Attilio.

Reference: AES 2176/40

Location and date: Vatican, 11.03.1940

Summary statement: Report on meeting between Maglione and Ribbentrop.

Language: Italian

Text:

At 12.15, immediately after the audience with the Holy Father, M. von Ribbentrop came to see me accompanied by his suite. 

I came out to meet him in the Throne room and after the usual greetings I escorted him into the audience room, where the conversation took place, lasting for about one hour.

The Minister started by saying that he is not a Catholic and in fact he does not profess any religion because, although born in the Protestant Church, he had abandoned Protestantism as soon as he realised its errors and faults.

Having called his attention to the distressing religious situation in Germany, the Minister said that the Fuhrer is favourably inclined towards the Catholic Church and in fact he would like to come to an agreement with it, but the moment is very delicate … and more time is needed especially on account of the divergence existing between National Socialist politics and those followed by the Catholic clergy in Germany.

This allusion made by the Minister gave me the opportunity of pointing out to him how the Church, in carrying out its mission amongst the people, takes great care to remain outside and above politics; these are the directives given by the Holy See to the clergy all over the world and therefore to the Germany clergy, who, in truth, scrupulously comply with them as a general rule,  If a breach or this rule were noticed in a particular case it would be sufficient to bring it to the notice of the competent Ecclesiastical Authority, who would certainly not fail to remedy it.  But it would be grace prejudice, I added, to see in the whole activity of the clergy nothing but politics. A political end is seen in the work which the clergy does to stem the process of dechristianisation of the people, in support of the fundamental principles of religion itself, in the efforts made to give the appropriate religious instruction to children.

From here passing to more concrete points, I recalled the particular attention of the Minister to some of the many facts which the Church has been compelled to deplore lately: suppression of almost all Catholic schools: reduction or suppression of religious teaching in elementary and professional schools where frequently lay teachers of religion take advantage of their position for advocating the so-called National Socialist “Weltanschauung” and in this way fight religion itself; the closing down of many colleges and religious houses; suppression of famous abbeys, frequent arrest of priests and members of religious orders: systematic anti-Christian propaganda particularly through the Press which in its attacks does not even respect the Supreme Pontiff, while the church, subjected to the most rigid and strict censure, finds it impossible to defend itself against these attacks and slanders, when even the diocesan bulletins, one after another, are suppressed.

To all this we must add the closing of almost all the Minor Seminaries, of many Major Seminaries and not a few of the Theological Faculties, without even giving notice to the Holy See, although this is a matter which comes under the Concordat.

I felt it my duty to mention all these events, or at least the more important ones, in a Note given to the German Ambassador to the Holy See on 13 July of this year [sic] with a request to bring them to the knowledge of the government, who, on account of the repetition of so many distressing incidents, had probably not been kept well informed about the activity against the church in Germany carried out by subordinate authorities.  But so far I have not received any reply on this subject.

Passing then to the very distressing present situation of the Church in that part of Poland occupied by Germany, I mentioned amongst other things the persecution there to which the faithful, the clergy and even bishops are subjected.  I also pointed out that the Holy See cannot accept without reservations information frequently supplied by the German Embassy here, regarding the situation in that territory, and even less can the Holy See publish this information without being able to check it directly.  Hence the necessity that the Holy See should have an Apostolic Visitor in Polish territory.  This would not be anything new, because, as the Minister knows, both in the Ruhr and in the Saar, following a request of the German Government, the Holy See with the approval of the French Government, sent an apostolic Visitor whose presence there was greatly appreciated by Germany. The same procedure could be applied now to Poland.

The Minister listened with great interest, and though he did not think there were many difficulties against these suggestions he could not, however, promise any Government action to put an end to the matters complained of.

I reminded him, at the end, that the Holy See has many times asked the German Government to allow them to carry out their charitable work of assistance and succour in Poland in favour of those poor populations, but have received no reply.  To this the Minister replied that the Fuhrer wishes Germany to be self-sufficient even when giving assistance and added that lately the Fuhrer himself refused an offer of ten million dollars, for assistance, coming from abroad.

From this conversation, although carried on in a courteous manner, the impression remained that we can expect very little from the visit of the German foreign Minister to the Vatican.

Notes: 

(1) Silvio Attilio (1889-1957), Undersecretary Extraordinary Ecclesiastical Affairs 1940-57.