tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-950604783198695289.post2214850808978896205..comments2022-11-30T11:15:50.549+11:00Comments on Paul on Pius: Pacelli supported Jewish homeland 1917 ... but what of 1944?Unknownnoreply@blogger.comBlogger3125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-950604783198695289.post-75641369445612346402012-07-20T07:49:25.425+10:002012-07-20T07:49:25.425+10:00question complexe. Moshe Sneh engagea Alexandre Gl...question complexe. Moshe Sneh engagea Alexandre Glasberg( pretre juif qui avait ouvert les yeux des chretiens qui etaient disposes,aux massacres en cours pendant la guerre a' Auschwitz et ailleurs) a' engager a' sa fois Roncalli, deja nuncio a' Paris (qui pendant la guerre come nuncio a' Istambul, en collaboration avec l'Agence juive en Palestine,avait aide' au sauvetage de beaucoup de juifs en Palestine), a' intervenir aupres de Pius XII. La reponse fut pratiquement positive et ils obtenirent que le Vatican influence les pays catholiques a' ne pas s'opposer a' la partition de la Palestine. Les articles de la "Civilta' Cattolica" inclusivement les paroles directes de Pius XII a' la veille et apres la creation de l'Etat d'Israel, montrent de nouveau l'ancienne opposition "theologique" a' une independance juive, retenue contraire a' la "foi" chretienne traditionelle. <br />*Les Documents secrets du Vatican qui n'ont pas ete' publies dans les 11 volumes de ADV 1939-1945 n'arrivent pas a' cette epoque ,mais les Documents de la "Civilta' Cattolica" sont bien lisibles!! et ils sont aussi tres clairsdanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06405730927642654265noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-950604783198695289.post-17047915305212394872012-03-20T19:39:36.279+11:002012-03-20T19:39:36.279+11:00Dear Domenico,
Thank you for your comment. Am I sa...Dear Domenico,<br />Thank you for your comment. Am I saying that Tardini and Roncalli acted without papal approval? No. What I am saying is that from my reading of the manner of Pius XII's diplomacy, he would not have taken a public line on such a sensitive issue as the partition of Palestine. I believe he left the finer details of working around anti-Jewish feeling to his deputies, especially Tardini, not so much Roncalli who was still in France as nuncio. The change in papal diplomacy came about because of the Holocaust, hence the linking together of the reference from AAS and the pope's comments to Arab delegates. And as for Moshe ben Shimon Klainboim from Radzin meeting the pope, where there was a will there was always a way. Again, Vatican diplomacy had done a considerable shift from the position made clear in ADSS 11.333 in August 1944. From what I can see from Roncalli's point of view, the shift was long overdue and there are hints in ADSS and other sources that men such as Roncalli, who were "at the coalface" were frustrated at the seeming lack of response from Rome. The world of Vatican diplomacy was complex, and often the right hand did not know what the left was doing.<br /><br />I have read articles about Guido Mendes and while there is nothing to say Pius did not have a close relationship with an Italian Jew, it is a long way to go without supported evidence that Pius participated in Shabbat dinners and had a working knowledge of Yiddishkeit. I think Mendes' articles are of a loyal and devoted friend who wanted to portray his friend in the best possible light.<br /><br />As for the comment about a Jewish state soon, have another look at ADSS 11.333; Pius was not against the idea of a Jewish state per se, only a Jewish state in Palestine.Paul O'Sheahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04172241722980912831noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-950604783198695289.post-83650662096629976392012-03-19T22:54:27.745+11:002012-03-19T22:54:27.745+11:00Dear dr. 0'Shea:
1) Are you saying that Ronca...Dear dr. 0'Shea:<br /><br />1) Are you saying that Roncalli and Tardini acted without Pope's approval? <br /><br />Let's remember what Sneh writes:”How could I, Moshe Ben Shimon Klainboim, from the small village of Radzin, possibly reach the Pope?”<br /><br />It seems that he met Roncalli and Tardini in order to 'reach the Pope'.<br /><br />2) Do you remember Jerusalem Post article about Guido Mendes where we can read: "Mr. Mendes recalled that the Pope, meeting survivors of the concentration camps in Italy in 1945, had then predicted “soon you will have a Jewish state.”"?domeniconoreply@blogger.com